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PaloVia Skin Renewing Laser- reviewed and recommended

August 2, 2012 Reviewed by admin 48 Comments

My eyes are one of my least favorite features. Not the actual eyeballs, which are a pleasant shade of blue, but the size (petite) and shape (almond slivers) of my eyes. Now wrinkles have been added to my list of eye-related grievances. Earlier this year, a pair of crow’s feet became stubbornly stamped in the corner of both my eyes. These starter wrinkles used to disappear as soon as I stopped smiling, but then they began to linger long after my face returned to status quo. Besides the natural forces of aging, I have the sun to thank for my crow’s feet, both for making me squint and for breaking down the collagen and elastin in the skin around my eyes.

If I had the chance to erase these faint signs of age before my wedding day later this year, I would take it, as long as injecting foreign substances or putting a knife to my skin weren’t part of the deal. So when I became acquainted with an FDA-cleared handheld cosmetic laser called PaloVia ($499), I performed a thorough cost-benefit analysis for the sake of my skin.

The powers of fractional laser resurfacing technology, which uses narrowly spaced micro-beams of laser energy to prompt new collagen growth, were seductive. Unlike topical potions and lotions, which work only on the skin’s outer layer, the laser treats the skin’s aging support structure and relies on the body’s natural healing process to sweep away old, damaged tissue and rebuild it. The risks, according to clinical studies and initial user reviews, were trivial and temporary. And so I took the plunge with PaloVia, ready to kiss my crow’s feet goodbye.

I was surprised at how quickly I mastered the device after just a few applications. All I had to do was make sure that the laser was fully charged, turn it on and select the desired setting (low, medium, or high), smear a gob of greasy gel on the treatment area, and zap away. This last step takes some getting used to. To get a feel for the sensation, imagine lots of hot, microscopic rubber bands being snapped against your skin. Once I got over the initial shock of essentially electrocuting my face, I enjoyed the process of tracing the lines stemming from the corners of my eyes and, bizarrely, I enjoyed the pain. Who knew I was into skincare S&M?

Keeping it on the medium setting, I pressed the PaloVia device, reminiscent of a grocery store checkout scanner, into my skin until it emitted a steady glow of blue light - the only cue that it is in proper contact. There were quite a few times, especially during my initial treatment, when the laser became misaligned and the beam of light was interrupted. Luckily, the device allows a generous 25 misfires per treatment. After completing the zapping (which is accompanied by strange sing-songy robot noises) the real pain kicked in. The lasered skin immediately turned a scorched shade of red and felt as if it had been in the sun all day. I dabbed cold water on the red areas and wiped off the gel residue. I then went to bed feeling flushed and mildly uncomfortable but buoyed by the product literature’s assurance that my skin would return to normal by morning.

How very untrue that was. In the morning, my skin looked scarlet as ever, like I had been punched in the face or was suffering from a severe allergic reaction. Or, apparently, had just treated my lucky skin to a laser resurfacing procedure. Up close in the mirror I could see a cross-hatched pattern which gave my red skin a rough texture that made hiding it under makeup a challenge.

Nonetheless, I persevered, and a few weeks into my trial, I started to notice visible changes. My skin was adjusting to the laser treatments and not flaring up as dramatically each time. The medical term for the redness I experienced is erythema, which is caused by an increase of blood flow in the lower layers of the skin brought on by injury or inflammation. Though the dryness and roughness persisted for quite some time - even after I had discontinued treatment - they were eventually replaced by a stretch of smooth skin. For now, the fine lines have faded and the corners of my eyes no longer keep company with crow’s feet.

PaloVia seems surprisingly easy to use, once you get the hang of it. Requiring only three additional minutes in your nightly routine, PaloVia is less tedious than the LED-equipped Baby Quasar and falls in the same price range (at $450-$500). Of course, that’s like comparing apples and oranges, since the two devices use very different technologies. LED contraptions emit low intensity light to improve the skin’s overall texture. The non-ablative fractional laser employed by PaloVia targets a small portion of the skin with light for faster healing and fewer risks. This technology, which was patented by Palomar (the maker of PaloVia) in 2000, is used to treat specific skin conditions like acne scars, wrinkles, and stretch marks.

I am not convinced that it is safe to use PaloVia regularly over a long period of time, due to the potential dangers of any new technology (whether or not the FDA has approved it) and the mysteries of the Hayflick Limit. However, I doubt that the two in-home devices of the Baby Quasar and PaloVia should be combined simultaneously. Though LED is by far the gentler light-emitting treatment, both can result in redness and swelling. Laser therapy is said to penetrate and stimulate much deeper tissue and thus to accompany more severe side effects, like rebound hyperpigmentation (as Jaysie pointed out after my initial dissection of PaloVia). During my trial, I did not notice any change in the pigmentation of the skin around my eyes, which is mostly free of freckles and age spots. But who knows what might happen after extended use?

In this study on fractional laser technology, researchers found that the fill factor (treatment area to total skin area) has to be carefully controlled to reach an optimal balance between efficacy and safety. The lattice of “islands” in the skin which were stimulated during the experiment with optical-thermal modeling technology must be distributed regularly to ensure safety. I found this conclusion to be worrisome in the case of PaloVia, which is intended to be used by untrained hands. If the fill factor isn’t carefully monitored, couldn’t someone easily overlap the treatment areas and leave the skin susceptible to damage?

I was thus surprised to find a rather concise user manual within PaloVia’s product package. The primary warning is to always precede laser treatment with the included gel (enough for up to four months), which ensures proper light penetration. I can’t imagine what is so special about this gel, which is formulated with some of the worst skincare ingredients under the sun - basically a mixture of mineral oil, propylene glycol, copolymers, and propylparaben. After each application, I made sure to remove the gel thoroughly with a dab of cleanser and toner. I then followed up the laser treatment with my usual serums and creams, hoping to maximize the production of fresh, healthy skin.

Though I would call my experiment with PaloVia a success, I think that the laser is much more effective on newer, shallow wrinkles than cavernous creases. I find it odd that the device is only recommended for the delicate skin surrounding the eye area. Could it be because the skin around the eyes is so thin and quick to heal? The inquiry that I sent Palomar on this matter has gone unanswered. Yet, I wonder how it would perform on those horizontal expression lines etched on my forehead...

With my PaloVia trial complete, I don’t think that lasers will make another appearance in my skincare routine for some time. I put PaloVia to the test to see if it would in fact have an effect on my fine lines. (Also, it wouldn’t hurt to look the part of a fresh-faced beautiful bride at my wedding later this year.) But no laser resurfacing treatment can result in permanent changes, since the facial muscles continue to move and the lines resurface over time. Besides, crow’s feet lend character, or at least that’s what I’ll tell myself when they come back.

  • March 16, 2018

    by Emily

    How can they take our Palo via away, who can argue with their success, a medical grade- it is a truly incredible tool . As far as deep cellular repair, I have over the past few years purchased four of this incredible device. This is due to passing them on to acquaintances I knew scheduled for surgery within weeks to have ankle replacements. Thus, suggested this in which I have had for over the past few years only because I've turned them over two people in need that I have known that required ankle surery. With proper diet and the use of this incredible device called Palo via, these people I encountered ended up -not having the surgery scheduled for them to replace their ankles. Meanwhile I continue to get incredible come compliments on my face and I definitely have had lasting results all these years since I found this incredible device. I believe there's no comparison and I wish they would bring it back :)

  • November 26, 2016

    by Anya

    There is an amazing organic gel that is sold in most natural-Path type stores it is called "NATURES AID" with just 5 all natural ingredients used for bites, stings, burns, cuts, acne any skin irritation it's amazing...aloe Vera, tea tree, witch hazel, vitamin E and rosemary ...i use it everyday before I go to bed and in the morning it's a nice cooling effect... p.s I'm a certified dermal therapy specialist, laser tech, and electrologist ... pure witch hazel is used rite after any and all laser, LED, IPL, Microdermabrazen , and fractional type treatments .... it should always be used daily as an astringent/ toner to tighten pores... no other product in the world works better .... unless combined with other natural ingredients

  • July 22, 2016

    by Juanita

    I just bought a Tria, am on the 3rd week of use, seeing some changes. But I also do Eva Fraser's facial exercises, which make a tremendous difference, my face is much tighter.

  • June 3, 2015

    by Jan

    I've been using the Palovia off and on for a couple of years and am genuinely delighted with the results. The Palovia gel which accompanied the laser, ran out after a few months. I, too, was not happy with the gel's ingredients (i.e. mineral oil, parabens, etc.). Instead of running out to purchase another Palovia gel, I decided to try Josie Maran's Argan Oil, as well as Tarte's Maracuja Oil (used separately). Both oils seem to work just fine. In order to achieve an uninterrupted laser pulse, I apply a thick layer of the oil to the treatment areas, just as I did with the gel. Since I follow each Palovia session with my normal skincare regimen, I thoroughly cleanse my face because serums and moisturizers can't penetrate oils. I do incorporate Retin-A Micro or the generic version (Tretinoin) into my nightly ritual, which mends the crosshatch marks left by the laser. To circumvent the temporary skin dryness associated with the Palovia and the customary Retin-A "flash burn", I apply an oil as my last step (over my final moisturizer). My top three favorite oils are Josie Maran's 100% Pure First Cold Pressed Argan Oil, Tarte's Maracuja Oil, and Perricone MD's Chia Oil. I have tried and regularly use the Palovia on facial problem areas other than the FDA approved eye region such as the "11's" (crinkles between the brows), horizontal forehead lines, laugh lines (lines which extend from the nose to mouth), and marionette lines (lines from corners of mouth to bottom of chin). I absolutely concur with the fact the Palovia achieves the best results with fine lines rather than creases/deep wrinkles. The Palovia abolished my 11 lines and laugh lines. However, my marionette lines (creases from the corner of my mouth to the bottom of my chin) are a bit challenging. Though the Palovia did help make these creases less visible, the marionette lines are caused by facial skin sagging. The only way to abolish my marionette lines is to either have a face lift (for which at only 40, I'm far too, young) or have a temporary filler injected. My hopes are to have the filler procedure conducted within the coming month in effort to have my chin match the rest of my wrinkle and fine line-free face. Personally, I owe my wrinkle/line-free face (excluding my marionette lines) to the usage of the Palovia Laser in conjunction with a strict skincare routine (prescription Retin-A, antioxidants, effective cleansing with my Clarisonic, gentle exfoliation, broad spectrum SPF, etc.). I highly recommend the Palovia or a similar device based on my individual results.

  • January 29, 2014

    by Marta

    Hi Dian, it is the same technology, but Palovia is no longer on the market for sale. We will try to get in a Tria for testing. Thanks for the nudge!

  • January 29, 2014

    by Dian

    Does Palovia uses the same technology as the newly launched Tria Age Defying Laser? Would love to hear TIA's review on it!

  • November 8, 2013

    by Marta

    From comments on other reviews we have of the PaloVia, I see that people are experimenting with aloe vera gel as an alternative to the Palovia serum

  • November 7, 2013

    by Annie

    The PaloVia gel seems expensive. Does anyone know if it is possible to use any other agent such as vitamin E oil, Vaseline, or other product?

  • April 5, 2013

    by Marta

    Hi Beth, I'll answer the second question first as I have the information to hand. LED and ultrasonic do not cause a trauma the way that laser does. They both seem to target water at the cellular and elastin level. Its a bit complex so here are some articles that explain how LED and and ultrasonic work and another on the differences between the various treatments:

    I'll get back to you on inflammation.

  • April 5, 2013

    by Beth

    I have a question for the TIA team: are there different kinds of inflammation? Why is inflammation related to injury-for-collagen-producing devices like fraxel laser different than say, inflammation from too much sugar? Is it just that the collagen produced in the injury process outweighs the inflammatory damage? So we must accept the incremental bad with the overall good?

    Second question: I understand that ultrasound is a completely different technology than laser, which is also different than LED, but do all three ultimately get to the same point: produce enough of an injury to the lower levels of the skin to promote new collagen production?

    Thanks for being the fountain of knowledge and youth!

  • April 4, 2013

    by Tootsie

    Ive been using for about two weeks now....around my eyes and mouth and those sneaky parenthesis from my nose to mouth...the stinging sensation has lessened during use and the parenthesis are almost gone. The finer wrinkles still need some work but I'm going to keep trying. I've been using Argan Oil for the dry patches and it's working great.

  • December 15, 2012

    by Ann

    It is not for right under your eyes. That skin is just too delicate. If you stay on the orbital bone, that under eye area will receive benefits, without being damaged. I can't use it around my mouth. It was too much. The scorch marks couldn't be concealed. But my forehead has responded well. I think you need a lot of moisturizer. I put a facial oil on first step after zapping. I like the YBF private reserve or Marula oil. Then I also use cream. If it gets too irritated, I'll skip a few sessions.

  • December 14, 2012

    by cagw

    I didn't really have many under-eye lines, but I have used it for a month and my lines are far more pronounced than when I started, skin is drier. In fact, I have wrinkles now that I never had before. I kept at it because I thought I really had to give it the 30 days to see results. Now I don't know what to do -- hearing everyone's great results make me wonder if I'm doing something wrong (though I followed directions.) Should have left well enough alone, I guess.

  • November 1, 2012

    by Jfo

    I have only been using my Palovia for a week and I love it!! it feels much like the professional laser for hair removal and I too am using it on my eyes and crepey areas by the corners of my mouth and jowls. I'm pretty excited to see the outcome in a few more weeks because I already notice a difference in the firmness of my skin (could be the swelling? :)

  • May 5, 2012

    by Anne

    Yesterday was my third under eye treatment, and I woke up and the lines under my eyes were more pronounced than every before. I hope they will diminish and aren't being made worse with the use of the laser. Skin also very dry after using. I am slathering under eye cream from now on after treatment. I also got red and puffy on the skin. Did anyone else notice the lines looking more obvious in the first week of treatment?

  • February 21, 2012

    by ruth

    Anyone with any experience or info about NuFace Trinity? I'm tempted...

  • February 20, 2012

    by SKT55

    I've just watched the PaloVia segment on QVC. I am wondering if it can be used on the creapy neck area. If it's so "safe" for your eyes, you'd think it would be ok to use on your neck. Does anyone know about this?

  • January 21, 2012

    by Mari

    I have had my PaloVia for almost a year . . . originally I researched laser resurfacing before going to a local physician’s med spa, 5 years earlier, a costly but positive experience of 3 treatments. I am 62 years old. I use the resurfacer around the eyes, results are effective compared to the deeper laser med spa version. Deep lines minimize, but are not completely gone. Because of the positive results around the eyes, I decided to test around the mouth, low and behold same results . . .deep lines are minimized, fine lines are gone . . . if you look up the depth of the home use laser it would indicate the results would be as indicated. The plus, I think, is a slight swelling produces an immediate smoothing. And, minimized or eliminates over time.

  • December 22, 2011

    by Aires

    H Marta, if you are loking for someone over 55 to try the Paovia device, pelase consdier me. I am an African American who has enjoyed great looking skin most of my life. Now, almost over night, I am getting crows feet, dark circles and under eye bags. URGH!!! I am looking for anything that would help but don't have the deep pockets of your other subscribers.


  • December 21, 2011

    by Cecily

    On the off-chance that you're still looking for a tester for Palovia, I'm your girl! My 50th birthday arrived this year and, with it, a more distinctive set of crow's feet. That's one b-day gift I'd like to return!

    I learned of Palovia about 2 months ago, so read this review with special interest. Would love the chance to weigh in on its efficacy.

  • December 13, 2011

    by Dennis

    Meeeeeeeeee! But seriously, my eyes are what give my age away. I've gone as far as a TCA peel on them, which I got limited results from. I'd love to try this!

  • December 13, 2011

    by Marta

    I went to the Palovia press reception last week and came back with a couple of these to try out. I'll be starting my 30 test tonight. Now I wonder who could test the other one :)

  • October 28, 2011

    by anon

    Do you know if this is supposed to do anything for age spots? I'm guessing no, since the website doesn't mention it, but I'm wondering if you've heard anything. (by the way, are you saying that lasers for age spots in the doctor's office actually cause age spots to worsen, possibly?)
    -also have you tried it anywhere else - like your forehead since this original article was written?)


  • August 11, 2011

    by StephanieG

    Just a heads up for any Canucks who want to buy this: QVC does not ship PaloVia to Canada :(

  • August 10, 2011

    by StephanieG

    Thanks Jackie! I'll check out their website..

  • August 9, 2011

    by Jackie Hanson

    To Stephanie G.
    You can order the PaloVia on (it's a home shopping network. Good price too!). I don't know if they ship to Canada, but can't imagine why they wouldn't.
    To everyone else. Thanks for posting. I really learned alot about the PaloVia and also moisturing products etc.
    I have an appointment with my skin dr this Fri for Fraxel treatment ($3200!) Was going to ask him if I could use the PaloVia for maintenance after his treatment, but I'm not even going to wait. I'm going to order it now. (saw it on QVC's website. I never bought anything from QVC and am not promoting their website; however, I googled prices on the PaloVia and QVC is the best price $479.00.
    Thanks everyone.

  • August 5, 2011

    by StephanieG

    Does anyone know where I can order the PaloVia from that ships to Canada?

  • July 31, 2011

    by Kim Walker

    I will be 44 at the end of this week. I am the fair, blue eyed person who grew up near the beach and was diagnosed with malignant melanoma at age 23 due to incessant sun damage. Hereditary proneness to wrinkles doesn't help. I've faithfully used good products on my face since jr.high-(Arden,Clinique,Clarins,Elemis,Perricone). NO ONE can make a cream that repairs like under surface treatments. The Palovia device is worth it's initial sting but must be committed to regular regimentation (as Copley did), for good results.
    P.S. Yes, it does work for all facial wrinkles(numerous testimonies), but less quickly than eye area. FDA theory a good bet- why wait for lawyers to determine usage of an at home remedy which has been scientifically proven to work?~k

  • July 31, 2011

    by Leatha

    I have one more Palamor skin tightening procedure left, had the third last week. I can not believe the improvements. I am thinking about getting the PaloVia for maintenance. I knew they were coming out with a home version, but didn't realize it was out. I am given small ice packs when I finish, and use the air condition on the car aimed right at my face on the way home. By the time I get home I don't need anything.

    I would use it in other areas, not just the eyes since I am having the physician treatments now. I wouldn't be afraid to use it that way.

  • July 5, 2011

    by Kim

    @ Stephanie - I have heard from a few docs and nurses, that you want to avoid ice after a treatment such as Fraxel, because it diminishes what they are trying to achieve. Procedures such as Fraxel are incurring injury to your skin to jump start healing and all that goes with that. Inflammation is part of that response. They actually DO want the inflammation and injury. If you impede that with ice, then you diminish the results you would otherwise see. Not that there wouldn't be any, but less so, than without ice. So yes, if pain is too much, use ice packs, otherwise, try to avoid them, even though you may be more uncomfortable.

  • July 3, 2011

    by Kel Moy

    It would be nice if the home version was combined with IPL. I guess I will have to try VISS Beauty and Palovia.

  • July 2, 2011

    by Kel Moy

    It probably does work on other parts of the face for anti wrinkle treatment. They just still want people to go in for professional treatment. I love Palomar, non-ablative lasers. I will try one.

  • June 5, 2011

    by Jess

    I purchased the PaloVia laser this past week. Initially, the sales woman did a sample treatment around the under eye area where i have always had tiny little bumps and dark under eye circles. After the first treatment, the right side problem area was cleared. CLEARED!

    So it is now sunday and it has been four days since the first treatment. I was terrified to try the laser on my own, but I mustered up the courage and dove in. I was afraid to get too close to my under eye area and ended up zapping just above the boney part. This is the area the sales woman tested on me originally. The instructions in the booklet does not say if this area can be treated or not, but she did it anyway. I have to research this further because I don't think i will continue treatments if this area is not recommended for the laser. I don't have crows feet at all, so this machine won't do me any good if that is the only thing it is used for.

    The sales woman did try zapping a tiny line around my smile area and the wrinkle did go away. I too am tempted to try it on an annoying wrinkle just in-between my eyebrows. I'll try it and let you know what happens. .

  • May 29, 2011

    by virginia

    I have also asked the Palomar company if this laser can be used on the forehead. I have also recieved no answer from them. What is their problem?

  • May 5, 2011

    by Kim

    Thanks for the review. I would be one of those terrible consumers who would use it three times a day just to try it on other skin problems like scars. I don't have any crows feet, but maybe light use of this would help keep it that way.

  • May 4, 2011

    by copley

    Joe- I came to the same conclusion about why PaloVia is exclusively recommended for the eyes. I hope that there will be formal testing done on other areas of the face, because I am very tempted to try it on my forehead (but would feel much better if the FDA gives me the green light first)!

    Stephanie- Skinceuticals Phyto Corrective Gel sounds like a lifesaver for lasered skin! I wish I had known about it before doing my trial. Since I didn't have an effective anti-inflammatory product on hand, I relied on makeup to cover up the redness. A concealer by Tarte really worked wonders. A full review is on the way!

  • May 3, 2011

    by Stephanie

    Did you use any products or ice to help calm the skin down post treatment?

    A few years ago I had Fraxel laser work done on my neck and décolletage.

    After my 2 *incredibly painful* sessions, I was given ice packs, and then used Skinceuticals Phyto Corrective Gel- which was a miracle worker, with my post treatment skin.

    I strongly recommend the product for helping with any inflammatory issues related to cosmetic treatments. That stuff is unbeatable.

    Oh, and the Fraxel did impact my neck and décolletage wrinkles, wrings, texture etc.

  • May 3, 2011

    by Val♥TIA

    I'm sorry for not contributing a substantial comment, but I'm still LMAO at "skincare S&M!!!"

  • May 3, 2011

    by Kathy

    Thanks Copley!
    I couldn't wait for your review, so I went ahead and bought one. Had my first treatment last night, and like you, I still had red blotches this morning. Eek. Lots of concealer helped, but not sure I will like showing up to work everyday looking like I've had an allergic reaction. Good to know I may only have to endure this for about two weeks. I have a visit to my derm this weekend, and I will be sure to ask him his thoughts about this device. And of course, I will give a thorough review of the PaloVia in about two months time!

  • May 3, 2011

    by Kim

    Interesting feedback on your experience. I have done tighten laser for my eyes. I had no down time at all but never really saw any result. My occular surgeon agreed, it didnt do much but maybe thicken the skin a bit.

  • May 3, 2011

    by Sandy

    Terrific review. Very thorough; thanks for all the time you put into this!

  • May 3, 2011

    by joe

    I agree with Marta's point - it makes sense that if Palovia got FDA approval based on its submitted eye area test results then that's the only specified use that could be recommended to users. That's how it works with FDA approved drugs. It's possible Palovia can remove/reduce wrinkles in other areas as well - similar to how some drugs can help relieve illness symptoms that are off-label/different from what they're specifically FDA approved for - but seems no formal tests on this?

    Also, Copley, you say no laser treatment can yield permanent changes b/c lines resurface...but isn't that likely why users are instructed to use Palovia "permanently"? - after the first 30 days of every day use then 2-3 x per week upkeep going forward.

  • May 3, 2011

    by Copley

    Hi Jaysie-
    1) The instructions indicate that PaloVia should be used once per day. However, the "time-out" period (after 25 uses) lasts just 8 hours, which means that an overly eager tester could feasibly use the device 3 times a day. Hard to say whether 8 hours is long enough for the treated skin to heal.
    2) Daily application of sunscreen is recommended, though no SPF is specified. I never bother with anything lower than SPF 30 if I'm going to be outdoors for more than a few minutes. I was very careful not to expose my already burned skin to the sun.

    Let me know if you have any other questions!

  • May 2, 2011

    by Jaysie

    Copley - great review! I have 2 questions:
    1) Fill factor - the virgin skin that is left behind with the lattice or grid pattern of burn is supposed to assist the burned skin to heal. How much time between treatments does the instruction manual state? This would affect the potential of overlapping.
    2) Sunscreen - Do the instructions emphasize the need for this and recommend an SPF factor? Sunblock is a big item in follow-up care for regular post-laser surgery.

    Thanks for your bravery in trying out this device!

  • May 2, 2011

    by Marta

    Copley - worth the wait. Thank you for such a great test and sharing it with us. I too was wondering why PaloVia is specified for the eye area. Perhaps that was the only use approved by the FDA, or the only example admitted to the FDA??

    StephanieG - I think I'll have to try it myself before taking it for the TIA shop. I can predict so many comments, questions and emails about how to use it that I would be concerned that we can answer them thoroughly (I suppose I could always forward them to Copley's honeymoon address).

  • May 2, 2011

    by Mark

    Copley - excellent and thorough review.

  • May 2, 2011

    by StephanieG

    Thanks for the review! Is there any chance of this device being carried in the 'Truth in Aging Shop'?

  • May 2, 2011

    by Valerie

    Thanks for being the community's test subject Copley. I had read about this device on EDS and noticed that everyone was claiming the red swelling around their eyes which didn't go away. So, I kind of put in on the back burner. I'm not sure I will give it a go, yet. But, as always, we appreciate your courage in trying that and reporting the facts.

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